Sunday, January 4, 2009

10 Reasons why Stern girls won't date me (and my analysis)!

(Check out all my new shidduch posts at: ConfessionsOfAShidduchDater.blogspot.com)

As any honest single Jew can tell you, the shidduch scene today is nothing less than absurd! Whether it's the silly questions during the initial screening process, the abnormal interaction between guys and girls, or the analysis of every single detail of a date. All of these areas can be discussed and critiqued at great length do to their absurdity; however, the area I'd like to focus on is the excuses I've been given as to why various Stern girls won't go out with me. Keep in minded that I've been rejected by quite a few Sternies, so I'd just like to pick my ten favorite/most frequently heard rejections:

1) "She hasn't started dating yet" - What the heck does this even mean?!?!? When girls come back from seminary do they have a letter from their rabbi of an exact date when they can declare themselves eligible to date? And since when did a single date become such a big deal? We aren't chassidish! I have no intention of proposing after the second date. In fact, there is a good chance that the only thing that the meidel will talk about is the summers she spent working at HASC, which will put me to sleep and there won't even be a second date! Give it a go! Declare yourself eligible…it’s only a date!

2) "She wants to make Aliyah" - That's cool! Maybe I do too! Maybe I want to move to LA. Maybe I want to move to Brunei or perhaps move to Africa and join the Dinka tribe. But that is something that can be discussed over a first date. One should look to marry a person, not a piece of land! Granted Israel is an important piece of land, but believe it or not the Torah is portable and one can build a home with Torah values anywhere in the world, just like Jews have been doing for centuries. The most important thing is who you build your life with, not where!

3) "You wear jeans" - Yes I do. Some Sundays if I have nothing too important planned, I get a little rebellious and break out my jeans! Ohhhhhhh God! Not jeans! NOT FREAKIN JEANS! HE'S A SHAYGITZ! WHAT'S NEXT, YOU GANNA START HAVING ILLICIT RELATIONS ON YOM KIPPUR IN FRONT OF THE ARON KODESH WHILE EATING A CHEESE BURGER? C'mon. Jeans are tznius. I apologize, but the penguin look (black and white), just doesn't do it for me!

4) An irrelevant 3rd party just "doesn't see it" – This excuse is the #1 cause of the shidduch crisis! You want to be set up with a certain individual and you ask someone who you thought was your friend to mention it to the person and they reply "Yeah...I don't see it!" Of course you don't see it! I know you’re not a prophet! I would never impose on you to predict the future! That's why I asked you to mention it to the person that I want to take out, not to make a prediction of if we will be married! If someone asks you to set them up with someone, mention it to the person and let them make the decision!

5) "I'm in the middle of something" (i.e. went on 1 date with someone else) - Let's clarify something! Going on one date with someone isn't being in the middle of something! Going out for a couple months is "in the middle!" Going on one date barley qualifies as "the beginning" because nothing of substance has even started yet! And for the record, it is completely muttur to go on a first date with multiple people at the same time...just ask your parents or anyone from the previous generation!

6) "She's actually applying to medical school now" - So? That's like me saying "Yeah, I'd love to go out today, but I'm actually planning on filling up on gas....kinda takes a lot out of me!" Obviously, I am not equating the difficulty level of applying to medical school to filling up on gas (unless you are from NJ like myself, and don't know how to pump your own gas), but come on! If you were taking the MCATs in a week than that's a different ball game. Applying to medical school shouldn't consume your whole life! If it does consume your entire existence, than I feel bad for you, your family, your future husband, and may God have mercy on your soul...

7) "I want someone that learns X-teen hours a day" - No you don't! Who do you think you're fooling? Let me tell you what you, and all Stern girls want: You want to live in a suburb of NYC (i.e. Teaneck), you want to go to Israel for succos, Arizona for Pesach, to send your kids to a modern orthodox yeshiva, modern orthodox camps, and you want to have tons of shiny jewelry! Unless you have someone sponsoring your marriage (i.e. your parents or in-laws) and your husband is a kollelnic with zero responsibilities, than try to be more realistic. If you find a buchur who makes a legitimate effort to go to minyan 3x a day and schedules in time to learn daily, in addition to having a steady income, than you have found yourself a quality buchur and you should be quite satisfied! [For the meidels who have just returned Israel: Save this and read it again in a year when you get more in tune with reality! Right now you're probably just assuming that I'm off the derech and practice avoda zarah.]

8) "I don't date guys that go to the movies" - I rarely watch TV, and only go to movies on occasion. But if your judgmental enough to not go on a date with someone because you found out that they have attended or plan on attending the occasional film, and not look at a single other aspect of their personality, than you aren't mature enough to be dating and I’m sorry that I spent anymore than 5 seconds looking into you! NEXT!!!!

9) "Does he want to take off time to learn in Israel" - Actually I did that already...it was called shana aleph and it took place after high school! As beautiful as it sounds to move to Israel for a year after marriage to "learn and grow together" some people need to get a job and don't have the luxury of parents or in-laws that want to sponsor their marriage until the newlyweds decide to get their act together!

10) "He has too many friends" - I kid you not! Someone said they weren't interested in dating me because I have too many friends! I never realized that having friends would hurt me! Is being socially awkward what the Stern girls are looking for now? Maybe it is! Social awkwardness and being boring seem to be the two most appealing things on Sternies shidduch wish list.

To conclude: I feel the overall themes of these rejections were the lack of honesty and the inability to be in tune with reality! If you aren't into my look because I wear jeans or work out, than just say so! If you don't like the fact that I'm driven enough to get a job and make a parnasa than I'm cool with that! If minayn 3x a day and an evening chevrusa just don't cut it than please just be honest – you are looking to marry a kollenic and want to move to Bnai Brak, not a YU graduate! If the fact that I am in tune with reality bothers you, then maybe you need to be honest with yourself and hold off on dating until you come back to the real world! In the meantime, the only excuse that I have ever taken as being valid consists of only two words: "I'm married!"

35 comments:

  1. shanko--well done. i cant tell u how many times ive been rejected bc of number 7 (im only at 9 hours). u should get in touch with chananya weissman of end-the-madness fame and vent with each other, or start a competing blog. as for number 10, maybe it means facebook freinds? would that make any more sense?

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  2. You cant see it or hear it, but I am applauding. I have stood up out of my chair, and am currently giving you a standing ovation. Well done.

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  3. Hilarious! Shkoiach there Tzaddik!

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  4. Shenk I don't think there is anything else I can add besides for what has already been spoken. Your words give chizzuk to all those who are getting fed up with the shidduch world and I think this list of yours should be posted in as many places as possible so people can see how ridiculous the shidduch scene really is.

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  5. I'll date you anytime Shenkman

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  6. so if the shidduch world is so flawed then why are you still in it? you should try finding ur basheret the old fashioned way

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  7. its because you hang around too many women

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  8. Yoni, if a third party doesn't see it, ask someone else.

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  9. If you want to see the best looking girls, there are tons of girls wearing tichels in the library. They're usually taken but that hasn't stopped me or Yoni before.

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  10. there should be this many good guys in the world-then maybe we'd all be in a better place! happily married with wondeful children! what the heck is wrong with wearing jeans? and comment-i don't believe that all stern girls are like that. because some stern girls where jeans too!

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  11. this is awesome in so many ways! I love it when i find ppl that actually write this stuff! But the whole too many friends is just weird. it would make more sense if u meant facebook friends...and btw i dont think that guys wearing jeans is quite the same as girls wearing jeans, unless u mean jean skirts lol

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  12. Yasher koach, from a mother that doesn't want to support her married children. After 20 years of religious and secular education, the idea of a child being able to make a parnasa is refreshing. I am not sure who is feeding girls the idea that having a husband that learns all day is the ideal. For whom?? Certainly not for her, when she will be expected to work, have children, and maybe finish her education as well, all at the same time. Some life! Too bad my daughter is to young for you.....

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  13. Wholly agreed, but this works both ways. YU guys insist on all that plus a girl who's wildly conversational, has a tiny waist and Martha Stewart cooking skills.

    The girls I know have walked far enough in 4 inch heels that I think, at the very least, we've earned that house in suburbia. And just a couple of shiny things.

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  14. NOT MY PHYSICAL LOOK!! too bad you missed out on a great one!

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  15. Thanks for the Arizona shout out. In general girls are pretty stupid.

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  16. This is one of the funniest things ive probably ever seen... John you have mastered the shidduch world and I seriously think you should write for the Jewish Post. Though I must say I myself am guilty of #1,2,4,5,6. And I do agree with the comment by STG, girls are pretty stupid... however I do not think we should overlook the fact that guys are also stupid and quite often proverbial tuchisis

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  17. Mikey and RBK couldnt have said it better
    Dont think you dont judge us just as much as we're judging you... everyone does it.. that doesnt make it right but thats how it works and you have to learn to live with it...
    If you dont want a girl that doesnt want all those qualities in you than maybe your looking at the wrong girls... dont put all the blame on them

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  18. is it ok if i put this on my facebook...its that funny

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  19. Attention YUsers...I enjoyed your list of reasons you seem to be unable to find a shidduch and even laughed out loud at certain parts. However, I wanted to add that while you boys, or do u prefer men find it hard to find a genuine girl who is interested in your personality and connection to yiddishkeit there are girls who have a harder time approaching the sensitive subject. Girls have an equally if not tougher time in the dating world for several reasons:
    1) One of the first questions asked by a guy in reference to a shidduch is...Is she pretty?...while a completely justifiable question in the sense that you do want to be attracted to your significant other beauty is subjective and not only about looks. So the next time u ask the question think about the person and not the face/body.
    2) Ironically enough my next reason refers to the hot topic of tzniut and how far a girl will go to hide her beauty. Often enough the issue of tights, collarbone, black skirts and elbows arise in the course of a matchmaking. You mentioned jeans as a deterrent for a shidduch well I am here to tell you that girls have to worry about the type of skirt they choose, whether their shirt chokes them or not, the length of their sleeves and the amount of make up on their face. Maybe lay off some of those issues and we'll give up on the jeans. I don't know about you other girls but I am confused as to how these YUsers want us to look, maybe we should just stick a bag on our heads and call it a day.
    3) "What’s your major?"...I bring up a third issue addressing careers. If you guys don't want to have to buy us shiny things, houses in the suburbs and send all the kids to yeshiva then don't do it yourselves, share the burden. A girl with a career ambition is not exactly welcomed within some modern orthodox circles and is preferred to be at home with the children where some would say she belongs. Some of us want to have a career and a family and thank G-d today it's possible. The next time you hear a girl wants to be a doctor, lawyer or Indian chief don't get intimidated. (This holds nothing against girls who do not want a profession outside of the home)
    4) What’s with the third party????? If you happen to be interested in a girl then go over to her or call and ask her out the worst that can happen is she will say no and life will go on. I was once approached by an individual in the YU library about going on a date with an individual I had never seen but had been seen by, I left the library thinking wow wouldn't it have made more sense for him to ask me out himself and getter a better sense of who I am, maybe he wouldn't want to even go out once he spoke to me. Plus a little conversation before the first date takes a little pressure off. Think about that the next time you ask a third party to be your representation.
    I'm sure the list could go on for both sexes and the many reasons so and so wouldn't go out with you but I just wanted to clarify the issues you mentioned are prevalent for the females as well as the males. Blaming Stern girls or YU boys is not the way to solve the issue instead maybe we should all take a personal stance against the current situation and just go out and have a nice time with an individual of the opposite sex.
    Again I just wanted to repeat that I enjoyed and agreed with many of your comments but this isn’t a one sided issue

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  20. Please go to www.makeashidduch.com. You will find several innovative approaches to dating, one of which is web conferencing dating. MakeAShidduch is NOT just for the right wing Orthodox, it's geared for the shomer shabbos person. It's a 21st century approach to Jewish dating. Try it....you'll like it.

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  21. as funny and true as this is...look at who is talking...

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  22. and are you the guy who wouldnt date me because im not a "stern girl"?

    maybe branch out and try diff girls!

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  23. I loved this-Kol Hakavod! Well done. Now-Will you go out with my daughter????!!! Can you possibly be a one in a million NYC/NJ guy who would venture out to the mid west-even for a date???!!!!

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  24. midwest girls are the best! i think you should do it!

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  25. Shenkman...

    I miss you teaching me how to pronounce Finnannce on the 1 train!

    ...I will go out with you! :)

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  26. Humor... well done.

    Now, regarding some of these excuses, especially 2,3,7,8,9, and ESPECIALLY 10, if this is just for kicks, awesome. But if you're really getting that kind of thing then you must be getting it from a certain "frum" group of "Sternies" (especially since, as one of the comments here points out, there ARE stern girls who wear jeans, both in skirt and pant form).
    Anyway, if you really are tired of getting shot down for these ridiculous reasons, which to you seem illegitimate, then you MIGHT consider trying to date girls who share your value system. They may also appreciate the occasional movie or pair of jeans or friend (SERIOUSLY??? TOO MANY FRIENDS??? LOL). But if you're going after "frummy" types who will give you lame cop-out excuses, I might have to *gulp* disagree, and rather suggest that YOU are yourself being the bad sport in expecting these girls to want to date you. If you're striking out in the majors, you go to the minors because you're out of your league, son. No offense.

    But again, if this is just for kicks... awesome.

    And, regarding "RBK"'s comment:
    "The girls I know have walked far enough in 4 inch heels that I think, at the very least, we've earned that house in suburbia. And just a couple of shiny things."

    I'm going to have to respectfully not have a clue where the logic is there.

    Walking in 4-inch heels, which (please correct me if this is inaccurate) they THEMSELVES chose to buy and obsess about and subsequently wear earns them hundreds of thousands (or more likely millions) of dollars worth of real estate in addition to "shiny things" (I especially admire how that phraseology just about sums up everything that jewelry is useful for = not a whole lot)...
    Maybe I'm missing something. Wearing 4 inch heels must be some sort of figure of speech, for doing crazy things to attract men, which, then, is obviously worth millions of dollars. Of course, that's it.

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  27. My comment in no way was meant to imply that "frum" girls are "the majors" (i.e. better than) the "nonfrum" girls, the "minors."
    This was not my intention, nor do I believe it to be true, but since I know somebody out there will read that into my statement, I chose to elucidate the matter and end that before it starts. Besides the fact that the labels themselves are silly and meaningless, it's not a legitimate comparison, though it is supported in the text.
    Cheers, all.
    Mr. Jarns

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  28. In terms of "they aren't dating yet" I propose that they have press conferences like they do in the college ranks to announce when they are turning pro... i.e dating

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  30. I really enjoyed your article. How about you try dating Touro girls we're just as nice and smart as Stern girls who knows your "Bashert" may be in Touro!
    I have a question for you what is it with guys and their reaction to Brooklyn girls? A lot of guys don't want to date Brooklyn girls for some reason saying their Rebbe's have told them "Brooklyn girls are a different set of dating" what does that mean?

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  31. Excellent post-- you made some great points!

    I'm sure other people have encountered the following phenomenon and also see the stupidity in it:

    So your friend Shloimy calls you up because someone wants to set him up with Shprintzy and he wants to hear what you think.

    A week later, when you call Shloimy cuz you have an idea to set him up with Freidy, he tells you that he needs to get back to you cuz first he needs to ask other people who know her.

    The fact that Shloimy trusts you as a reference and as a shadchan- but that you can't be both at the same time- is a sad commentary on today's shidduch culture.

    People can't go on a date without first making sure that everyone approves of the idea; that all their friends who are self-proclaimed experts on dating (read: sitting every night watching Youtube videos and tallying up new Facebook friends) are given this tremendous power to veto.

    To all you reading this, next time you're about to tell your friend that you "don't see it", besides questioning yourself whether that statement says anything concrete, ask yourself if you even know both parties well enough to judge the situation. And besides, who asked you?

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  32. Thanks for this. It's going to be a feature on my blog, I can guarantee, blee neder, one day.

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  33. i don't know shankman- but he makes very legitimate points. this article is flawless.
    my advice to girls in looking for a guy: make a "ball-park" for yourself, meaning if the guy is in the same ball park you shouldn't drop him because he doesn't fit every single criteria which you are looking for. remember, you are looking for someone to grow with (i.e. a human)- not a finished perfect product (i.e. a robot off the shelf). For the same reasons G-d gave us the Torah, so that we will be able to learn and grow with it and to feed off of it. It says in the torah "re'eh chaim im eeshah asher AHAVTA": the key word is AHAVTA (love) and not RESHIMAT EECHUT (list of qualities).
    Let me give you an example of something that sounded so wonderful on paper but turned out to be a hazard- Carl Marx and Freidrich Engles thought of communism, which on paper sounds terrific (just like an aliya making, X-teen hour learner who doesn't wear jeans), but if you go to Russia you will see a country completely torn by communism. but it sounded so good on paper!!! stern girls, you are inexperienced at life just as are YU boys. But YU boys don't pretend to be experienced whereas a lot of stern girl do when it comes to dating. Meaning you can be missing out on a boy who is really wonderful and who you will grow with and love, just because he doesn't have a few things on the checklist.
    Nobody is 100% perfect, so what you need to do is take the person for the 90% good that he has and to try to grow with him on the remaining 10%. If Hashem created you with imperfections, then who are you to demand perfection from someone else. If he is within the same backround as you, then have the "chein" and "kavod" to give a person a chance.
    One last thing: what do you get out going out with a guy who is perfect? you don't get anything out of it. you are supposed to BUILD a bayit ne'eman- you are not supposed to be handed it on a silver platter. This is the same thing as believing in Hashem: if you KNOW that g-d exists and you worship him--> you don't get a mizvah for worshiping something which you KNOW exists. You only get a mizvah for worshiping him because you BELIEVE he exists. otherwise there would be no "CHOCHMA" to what you're doing. Believe in YU boys!
    I hope this helps.

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  34. I've never been more happy that I have nothing to do with YU

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  35. Hilarious.... keep up the good work.

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